Since he began performing in 1978, singer-songwriter and bassist Mike Watt has thrived in being spontaneous and creating music that didn’t always play by traditional rules. Whether it was with his various bands (i.e. The Minutemen, Dos, Firehose, as part of the final lineup of The Stooges, Big Walnuts Yonder, Banyan) or as a solo act, he has a knack for helping coin phrases like “econo punk” and finding different ways to express himself.
That urge to seek out the spontaneous and stretch sonic boundaries is something he’s been able to find through his band Il Sogno Del Marinaio (Italian for “The Sailor’s Dream”). Formed about 15 years from a longtime friendship, Watt is joined by Italian-based guitarist Stefano Pilia (Massimo Volume, In Zaire, Afterhours, Rokia Traore) and drummer Andrea Belfi (Medves, Christa Pfangen, Rosolina Mar). The experimental rock trio released two albums – 20013’s La busta gialla and 2014’s Canto Secondo.
On May 5, the band – which now features new drummer Paolo Mongardi (Zeus, Fuzz Orchestra, Fulkanelli) will release its third album, aptly titled Terzo via Improved Sequence Records label. The album has much to offer – muscular grooves, jazzy improvisation, post-punk jams, guitar hero moments and sharp and pointed funk. Watt’s melodic, tuneful bass playing and spiel find plenty of room to stretch in the sonic playgrounds.
The trio split recording of the album in the U.S. and Italy. It was recorded at Casa Hanzo in Watt’s home of San Pedro and completed at Blindsun in Bologna, Italy. It was mixed by thighpaulsandra (Coil, UUUU, Spiritualized) and mastered by Giovanni Versari with artwork by Michelangelo Setola.
The group is excited to share their new music on their tour in May. Want to see the band, see this page: http://hootpage.com/hoot_terzotour2024.html.
Today, Scummy Water Tower is excited to premiere the official video for the new track “Purple, Orange, Green + Yellow,” along with an interview with Watt and Pilia. The video was directed by Hiyori Minato. They discuss their growing chemistry, finding inspiration from Walt Whitman and how the group has kept them on their toes musically.
The band gets into quite a nice groove in the video. Can you tell me a little bit about the story behind the filming of the video and how the band decided to film that song? What was your experience like filming the video? Favorite moments or biggest surprises?
Mike Watt: Miss Hiyori (Hiyori Minato) filmed these Il Sogno Del Marinaio videos. They were non-scripted “captures” of us recording the Terzo album at Casa Hanzo in San Pedro, California which is where I’ve lived since I was eight. So, we weren’t really aware of her filming. Everything she filmed surprised me cuz I was very much focused on the music making process or else all caught up in showing stuff in my town like when I took us all to the Point Fermin Lighthouse, the oldest building in our town.
Stefano Pilia: I remember on the Point Fermin cliffs on the ocean we saw a Peregrine falcon, the fastest animal on earth!
Those were the days we went to San Pedro to record the foundations of Terzo at Casa Hanzo. During some pauses from the recording sessions, we took some walks around. Our friend Hiyori Minato joined us and with her camera shot some moments together. Then she edited and put it together. It was not planned! it just came out as a “video postcard” memory of those days spent together.
What inspired the studio version of the song?
Pilia: This is a Mike song that has been arranged together for the Nuovo Spirito tour in 2017. Fratello Paolo and I react with our contributions to Fratello Mike proposal. I just got the flow following the melodic arpeggio of the bass, counterpointing, singing, and dancing around it.
Watt: Are you talking about “Song For Anima Mundi” maybe? The music was from Stefano Pilia and Paolo Mongardi with me having to develop a bass part there in the studio. The words are from Walt Whitman. Stefano Pilia’s idea but I am a total fan of Walt Whitman, so I was way into them being part of the tune. I tried to bring them with my voice the same way his words made themselves brought to my eyes which was very profound. I dig the choices Stefano Pilia made very much cuz there is so much good stuff that Whiteman’s Leaves of Grass has.
The band draws from an eclectic range of influences. How would you describe the band’s sound and what do you think makes it different or unique? What about the band’s brand of Avant rock do you find appealing?
Watt: I would say we’re using a very standard rock format: the power trio. it’s the way we use that format I think that makes us different. Not so much just a rhythm section supporting a soloist, it’s more like three voices with equal footing so there’s more interplay than what you usually get with a band made up like this. I like being able to hear the distinct “voices” of the three different musicians working to “weave” a unified sound-rope from these singular strands which can be either melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic – whichever the “dialogue” we’re engaged in seems to ask for. I find the process really interesting, having played in trios since my Minutemen days… the Il Sogno Del Marinaio way of doing it is definitely its own trip!
Pilia: I see it as a magical, mysterious, funny, surprising box. You never really know what will come out from it. There are a lot of colorful candies, elements from song form traditions, avantgarde spices, rock, funk, and punk vibes. Still, more simply, we are making songs using I guess everything we heard that has been a source of inspiration.
The band’s been growing its sound over the course of three albums and it seems like you’ve gotten better at highlighting and giving time to everyone’s strengths. How do you think the sound and chemistry has grown most from the band’s first album? What songs really showcase this growth?
Watt: Well, this is the first album me and Stefano Pilia has made without original drummerman Andrea Belfi, so for me that’s the biggest change. Our first two albums had each member bring about a third of the stuff. With this “Terzo” album, Stefano Pilia and Paolo Mongardi worked on a number of pieces together in Bologna, Italy before coming to the U.S. to record with me. I gave them tunes (“Purple, Orange, Green + Yellow” and “Pulling Myself By My Own Hair”) like I did with the first two albums. But the dynamic between them both was much different with this third album, they collaborated on the tunes they brought me – this was different than what happened with our first two albums. I say all the tunes on this album shows where the band is at, shows it accurately.
Pilia: I think Terzo, the new 7” Wing And A Prayer and the 7” Tribute To Miles Cooper Seaton are all representative of a possible growth. I think the alchemy got better knowing each other, tour after tour, song after song, walk after walk. We live with an ocean in the middle, so we do not have quite a regular chance to play together and even to spend time in the same place, but we can still exchange ideas and inspirations working in distance. That is the first most necessary fire in the end.
What are some of the most ambitious experiments you tried on this album that you hadn’t on previous releases? Were there any techniques you brought back from your earlier work? Were there chords that spawned a unique direction for any of the songs?
Watt: For me, it was learning how to play with meters I am not used to – this happened with me when Andrea Belfi was the drummer also… the biggest difference I feel with me and my two Italian bandmates is this struggle I have with what is difficult for me concerning meters which these guys don’t seem to have. It’s a huge challenge for me… it was before and it still is now – I am a slow learner, scusi!
Pilia: We went deeper into the production process, both in musical arrangements, and into direct sounds productions process. I used tape manipulations for example to process some guitars or some Fratello Paolo drums. These kinds of elements bring an extra tridimensional electro acoustic and acousmatic level into the music, this is something that was not present in the previous records.
The new album is called Terzo, which is Italian for third. What about the term do you like?
Watt: I think it’s accurate, that’s why I like it. It’s Il Sogno Del Marinaio’s third album.
Pilia: It’s our terzo album, our terzo chapter…the one before was called Canto Secondo, the second hymn. The title is Fratello (brother) Mike’s homage to Dante’s Divina Commedia. So, after the 2nd comes the 3rd.
What about the bands’ third albums do you find most fascinating?
Watt: It’s prolly different for different bands. I know the third Minutemen album was different than the third Firehouse album, just like my third opera was different from my first one. In Il Sogno Del Marinaio’s case, the big diff between the first two albums and the third one is the drummer [situation]. The other diff is it not being recorded in Italy like the other two, but I wouldn’t consider that so much a big thing when compared to the personnel change.
I like the cover artwork Michelangelo Setola did with the figure seemingly trying to break out of the net and sea. What’s the story behind the cover? What do you find appealing about the cover and how it fits with the release?
Watt: Michelangelo worked from a photo of a sculpture (artist: Francesco Perilli) here in my town that the people of Ischia (near Napoli) gave to my San Pedro town – we’re “sister cities” cuz we have a lot of immigrants from that island that made their home here. I actually see that statue as someone trying to bring something together, surrounded by birds of peace (doves).
Pilia: That sculpture is a gift that people from Ischia donated to the San Pedro community. Fratello Mike took a photo of it and Michelangelo Setola, who is an incredible artist, made it his own creation and interpretation of the statue.
You mentioned before about Walt Whitman having an influence on the album. What made you start thinking lately about his writings/philosophy?
Watt: It was Stefano Pilia’s idea to use those words from Mr. Whitman, but I thought it was a great one and my response was to respond with words from Giuseppe Garibaldi for the album’s last tune, “None Dare Call It Conspiracy.” It’s like they’re both with the same spirit we sort of are even though we’re more than 150 years apart – ain’t that a trip? I think it’s about thinking about what’s really important about being alive, these kinds of words motivate me to think of such things.
Pilia: I started reading Whitman’s poetry thanks to Fratello Mike. The first Whitman quote I remember has been memorized passing through Fratello Mike voice “Do I contradict myself? / Very well then, I contradict myself. / (I am large, I contain multitudes.)” Then, almost years ago now, I read again and again Leaves of Grass, getting back to it several times. Often, I keep notes of passages that interest or inspire me. One of the quotes I kept from Leaves of Grass became later the lyrics for “Song For Anima Mundi,” the opening Terzo track. It almost has an urgent statement. I felt that could have very well represented the spirit of Terzo.
What about Walt’s work do you find appealing and still relatable to current times?
Watt: The way he makes me feel, a genuine human voice that’s actually concerned with what’s being said and what’s concerned, the heartfelt emotion blended a sincere compassion along with a sensitivity and awareness that’s most sincere. For me his stuff is the complete opposite of jive and I love it. There’s no front!
Pilia: What I like about Whitman poetry is the force of empathy with all in the creation he can embrace and communicate to the reader. His words can literally hug you so deeply ‘til revitalizing a sense of gratitude and care for everything and everyone surrounding us. I found his poetry so extremely powerful if not even a possible chance of salvation for the world today.
On the Bandcamp page there’s a Whitman quote that starts with “I swear there is nothing but immortality!” What about that quote do you find appealing and connects with the band’s goal with this album?
Watt: Well, maybe at the end of the day a work has to end up speaking for itself. I think it means it’s a waste of time to try and compare this to that, to relate something with something – some lazy way to pigeon-hole stuff. I think it means the piece should speak for itself, the same way the band should, by expressing itself musically. everything has its influences but that ain’t the point I think he means he wants stuff to speak for itself and reveal what it’s got that way.
Pilia: That quote points out how everything is related and connected…there is a larger soul, a vital source which contains us all and is immortal. Through observing, respecting and taking care of each other, of the world we live on and are part of, understanding how everything is related we can take consciousness of this immortal soul and find a larger sense, something that overcome death … “oh my soul! if I realize you I get satisfaction, animals and vegetables, laws of the earth and air if I realize you I have satisfaction / I cannot define my satisfaction – yet it is so, I cannot define my life… yet it is so.”
I really enjoyed “Grabbing Me By My Own Air” and the epic sonic journey it takes. What inspired that song? What did you enjoy most about recording it? What do you like about creating longer songs like these?
Watt: I wrote that tune. I did want it to be a journey. I wrote it on the bass, a springboard, as a launchpad for Stefano Pilia and Paolo Mongardi to see what they could do with it cuz I have no realized “big picture” in my mind when I gave it to them. It was more about me handing them hunks of clay like if they were ceramic people, giving them hunks of clay to see what they would make out of it. I think composing on the bass leaves open a lot of room for your collaborators cuz it’s not so full of harmonic stuff. I brought the tune to provoke a situation.
Pilia: This is a Fratello Mike song. He came already with the idea of the structure.
The band split time recording the album at Casa Hanzo in San Pedro in the U.S. and Blindsun in Bologna in Italy. How did splitting time recording in two different locations most impact the songs? What do you like about those locations and how were they conducive to recording?
Watt: Overdubs were done in Italy. Basic tracks were done in the U.S. So, both [situations] kind of inform each other. Actually, I feel both [situations] NEEDED each other and this album couldn’t exist without both experiences. Of course, I love recording in my town, but I love recording in Italy also. You know, you can say that life will deal you a hand and then have to play it the best way you can in that moment. Terzo is the result of the way the cards got dealt the way they did, capito?
Pilia: It allowed us to take distance and perspective on the materials. So, working with some temporal distance allows a “fresher” perception of what you recorded and gives benefit to the compositions, what the pieces need to be complete and flourish in the best possible way. Casa Hanzo sounds really good. Pete Mazich really made a good sounding room there and Blindsun is my studio in Bologna.
The album also features Ramon Moro on trumpet and Petra Haden on vocals. How did you meet them and what was it like having them contribute?
Watt: Ramon Moro was Stefano Pilia’s idea, and I think it was an excellent choice. Petra Haden is an old friend of mine and we’ve worked together many times. I thought she brought what the tunes she’s on needed, she’s never ever let me down that way. I met her many years ago. Hell, we just did an opera with Chaley Plymell’s libretto (“Planet Chernobyl.”) I can (and do) ask Petra for anything, she’s really righteous that way. Does the stuff right there by herself at her pad, amazing.
Pilia: Ramon is a friend of mine who lives in Torino. I can’t really remember how I met him! I hear some horns would have been nice, so I asked him to add something. I never met Petra yet…hopefully one day.
What were some of the biggest challenges and surprises making the album?
Watt: My biggest challenge was playing good bass to Stefano Pilia and Paolo Mongardi’s tunes! This was a challenge, but a challenge can help you grow. So, I gritted my teef and kept at it, kept the focus. Some of it was very difficult.
Pilia: The biggest challenge has been finishing this album on distance with the pandemic event in between. It has been a very hard time, it still is for me. The great surprise has been hearing thighpaulsandra mixes of our tracks and how quick he got the ideas of productions we had in mind…it has been a gift to have his mastership service for these pieces.
Everyone has thrived in becoming what some might consider untraditional collaborators. A friendship between Mike and Stefano led to the band forming about 15 years ago. What do you like most about working with musicians that come from a different background? What’s it been like seeing the growth of this band and friendships?
Watt: 2008, yes. I met Stefano Pilia in 2005 when he helped me on a tour of my second opera in Italy…three years later he asked me to be part of this idea he had… I’m very grateful to him for making this happen! We keep on keepin’ on…
Pilia: That you can learn something and that something unexpected can born.
For those that made it to the end, here’s the live video for “Purple, Orange, Green + Yellow”:
You can follow Il Sogno del Marinaio at Facebook and Mike Watt on Facebook and Instagram, Stefano Pilia on Instagram and Paolo Mongardi on Instagram.
Joshua is co-founder of Scummy Water Tower. He’s freelanced for a variety of newspapers, magazines, and websites, including: Rolling Stone, The Boston Globe, Chicago Sun-Times, Guitar World, MTV News, Grammy.com, Chicago Magazine, Milwaukee Magazine, MKE Lifestyle, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, A.V. Club, SPIN, Alternative Press, Under the Radar, Paste, PopMatters, American Songwriter, and Relix. You can email him at josh@scummywatertower.com.
